How do you feel about...

[cat67]

euthanizing healthy horses?

The question always comes up in the slaughter debate. If we do not have slaughter, and a home cannot be found, is is unacceptable to euthanize a healthy horse? Some vets will not do it (although I'm not sure what alternative solution they think exists?)

I personally do not have a problem with euthanizing a healthy horse. It is fast. It beats the alternatives for a horse who is a difficult placement. I know we can all point to an untrained or even "dangerous" horse we retrained who is great now, but the fact remains there are far fewer people qualified to do that than there are wild/untrained/dangerous horses. And most people who have the skills to deal with the really tough ones aren't working for free.

The issue also exists with old horses. I love old horses, particularly old mares. But with a 19, 21, 25, 27 and 28 year old, I'm kind of at capacity (ya think? lol). There are not enough of us who love having the seniors to pick up the mess left behind by people who only love having young horses who can perform at a certain level, and either do not bond to them emotionally enough to provide a retirement home, or lie to themselves and tell them the horse will "find a good home" (at the slaughter auction...okaaay).

So what's your take? When is it ok to euthanize an otherwise healthy horse? Should vets be allowed to say no to doing it? What if there is 1 vet in your area and he says no? What options should exist for horseowners, and should government funding be provided?

[lorsadoon]

Boy, this is a tough one, and bound to have lots of different opinions.
I want to start with the two questions that seem the easiest for me to answer.

Should the government fund euthanasia? I say no. The government already picks up the tab for to many things that people should be taking personal responsibility for.

Should vets be allowed to say no? Yes, if it is against their personal beliefs, they should not be forced to do something that goes against what they beleive. They have to sleep at night too. And I am sure they want to go to bed without the thought that they were forced to do something against their will.

If you really cannot find a vet willing to put a horse down, most rendering companies will also that. It is just that most people do not like to hear the sound of a gunshot. There is just something about that sound. But in the end it is all the same.

Putting down old horses-if they are not in good health or in pain. It is a hard decision, but yes, I think that is acceptable. People tend to extend human thought processing to animals. But I beleive that animals do not know there is a future. There is only a today for them. If they are in pain today, that is all they know. If you can release them from that, you have done your job as a reasoning and compassionate human being. If you cannot afford to keep up on the drugs, etc. to keep an old animal healthy and pain free, it is better to let them go. But, that is such a hard decision to make. I know, I have been there.

The dangerous and untrained animal is a tougher question to me. Both of those are subject to personal opinion most of the time. If a horse has been declared dangerous and has been proven to be so, I guess that would be up to the owner to decide. It would be better to put down an animal than to risk it taking a persons life. I beleive there are bad horses out there, just as there are bad people. And no amount of "therapy" is going to help them.

The one problem I have is with people who want to have their horses put down when they pass away, or cannot take care of them anymore because of their age or something. They think there is nobody out there good enough to take over for them, who could possibly take as good of care of them as they do. I think this is rather selfish. There are plenty of caring people out there, like us ;D. You just have to be prepared ahead of time to have a plan for your animals.

I also beleive every horse owner should have a euthanasia fund set aside for each animal, incase you should need it. That way the horses passing would not be such a financial burden. It is very sad when people say they do not have the money to put a horse to sleep, so they just let it suffer on.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I am sure there are many others out there. Laurie

[pekipoos]

I am in this predictament.

I have an older horse that at one time I was trying to find a home for. I listed her and as some may remember there was a big hooplah about it. Anyway, I still have this mare and would still love to find her a home, but she is old, simply put old. Her exact age is unknown, but probably 30 or more by vet and ferrier guess. They said at the least 25. She is a horse who has done everything in her past and you can tell that by her behaviors. She has an incredible western pleasure headset and just will do anything for any child you put on her back. Believe it or not absolute babysitter.

Now where I am having the problem is she has arthritis in her front knee. It does cause her some discomfort, but she gets around just fine. She also runs and plays when she wants, kicking up her heels at the youngins out here. So whats the problem? She wants to be ridden! This mare will come right up to you and lay her head on your chest and just sit there wanting love. She will then turn to her side and step right up next to you for you to climb on up. She does not care where you are or where the kids are, she will just slightly turn her body to even up to her shoulder and wait patiently. Never doing anything mean or bad in any way. But the kids are getting bigger and she is getting older.
What should I do?! I keep her out here happy as can be, getting all the love we can muster for her. She gets great care, eats well, all her suppliments, feed, has her own clean large stall and free run (walk in her case), of all the pastures. But she wants more.. to be ridden and loved on all the time.

I have kept her and continue to fight myself about finding her a new home. Is there people out there looking for an old timer that still can ride and play, but has some special needs? It makes me nervous to think about someone else taking care of her.

Or should I have her put down? Should I not take the chance of her falling into the wrong hands again? (She was at an auction, undoubtly going to go for meat.) And then into the hands of a horse trader? Shuffled from home to home, again and again? I dont want her to go through that again. Who knows how often it has happened to her.

I try to keep my head up about it. She is getting everything she physically needs here, but not all she mentally needs.. she wants more.

Is it being slefish? I dont know.. I do feel that it is a little and want to give her everything she needs in her last years. But I am scared to think she may go somewhere they cant or wont do the same for her.

[alli]

Pekipoos,

There is the perfect home out there, you just have to find it which isn't the easy part. I would call your local 4-H extension office. Put an ad in their newsletter, ask to call leaders whatever it takes to contact these people. I bet someone out there is looking for a horse just like her right now for their kid.
Mostly 4-H'ers take excellent care of their horses because they have their leaders around alot to help them. .

On the subject of arthritis, I have an old mare too that has it.
She isn't lame and moves stiffly at first. When she is warmend everything works great. IMO the more exercise they get the
better their arthritis feels. When we first got her she popped everywhere. Now she doesn't at all. Weird ! She is old, I will
feed her and my boys will ride her until she is ready to go.
Makes me sad , but I need to mentally prepare myself for that day the best I can.

[pekipoos]

Thanks Alli. We will look into the 4-H'ers.. never thought of that.

It is really hard and I just fight myself to keep her, then always second guess myself. I still have her here, so I guess I am keeping her, because it seems just too odd to be without this old girl now... but again that is only for myself.

I do think she would miss my son. Those two are just adorable together.

Now for her arthritis: I agree. She does feel better moving around more, but even in a warm barn with her winter blanket on she some times gets all rickety and pops and creaks while moving.

About mentalling preparing?? Hmmm.. dont know about that. I try to prepare myself, I guess its a pre-prepare (if that is a word! LOL), but it just isnt enough and I am all mixed up about it.

[ljbrooks]

What difficult questions...I think no one can answer until they have been in that situation themselves. I can answer how I think I would act, but I don't know. Our horses are our family members and even when it may be in there best interest (and ours) we wnat to consider all the options, to make the best decisions and by then, maybe it's summer and we think we can put it off a bit longer. So difficult.

Every day when I wake up, I wonder if this is the day that Gambler will be down and not want to get up. Every day, I go out to feed and he is walking stiffly, cracking and popping with each step to get his feed. Is he healthy? Yes...for a 30+ year old horse. Is he in pain? I don't know. Vets think it's managable, but we've all seen the stoic horse who will keep going even when we know he's in pain. He will live here until his life is over, whether that is by God's decision in the dead of night or by my and the vet's hand when he is just "done". These old horses touch my heart in it's delicate place. They know so much, have done so many things. They teach my children and calm my friends who are fearful of horses. I do think it's okay to euthanize a "healthy" old horse if the quality of life is deminishing and/or we are uncertain of what will happen to them and we just (for whatever reason) cannot keep them any longer. That is a better place than uncertainty. I will put Gambler down before he goes to any other home, if I become financially unable to care for him any longer. It's the right thing to do for this old boy.

Horses that are just dangerous...? Well, most of us would say they could be rehabilitated into a contributing member of horse society. I don't know about that. I have owned horses that I didn't "click" with and that weren't right for me, but I wouldn't have euthanized them. They may have been dangerous for me (yes, I've been bucked off a few), but in the hands of others, being used for different purposes, they found their calling and ended up as great performers for their new owners. I have a very calm, easy mannner (I hope!) around my horses, and the fact is that some horses need the human to TAKE CHARGE

[ljbrooks]

(oops) and I am not that person. I find my horse partner and we connect.

I am getting way off the topic....

I think it is okay to euthanize a healthy/dangerous horse if no one can be found that can work with the horse.

Okay, I'm done. :-)

[seahorse]

I do not have a problem with euthanizing healthy horses. In my work in horse rescue and animal control I have seen things far worse than a quick humane death. That being said it makes me very commited to trying to rectify the reasons we have a surplus of horses. Namely irresponsible breeding. If your horse is not a purebred or a registerable partbred(and I am not talking the cheesy internet"you can register your mutt here" sites- DON"T. If your horse does not have a proven performance history- DON'T. If you cannot guarantee that the foal will go to a trainer and be proven as a performance horse- DON'T. If you think you will make money breeding horses you are kidding yourself- people with money breed horses; horses do not breed money!-DON'T.

[ljbrooks]

I like that seahorse "people with money breed horses; horses do not breed money!" So true.

I love to get off topic, but it brings up a topic I have been struggling with. I have a desire to get a purebred horse, but feel somewhat guilty and feel like I should get a "mutt" since there are so many around. I don't know how to reconcile that. I guess if the horse is already born, and I'm not ordering a foal between this mare and that stud, it's the same. Maybe I'll post on the general board and see what they think as well.

[emjay]

tough question, let's see, euthanize a horse as comparison to taking the risk of selling it at an auction with the chances of it going to slaughter. I would choose euthanasia. However, if it got to that point, I would have to slap myself in the head first for getting in over my head if i take on a horse and cant' afford it. or, in the scenario where you own horses, you love them and something major happens in your life, whether it be a divorce, a transfer with a job, a death, loss of income, a drought etc. circumstances beyond your control where you couldnt afford to feed your horses, the option of either selling them at auction or trying to sell privately. Sometimes trying to sell privately takes a long time, as there are so many horses for sale at one time. I had my mare up for sale for a long time, had some phone calls but all wanted to pay half of what i was asking. I eventually gave her away. that also could be another option. YOu can't find a person to buy your horse, you don't want to put it through auction, you'd rather euthanize. why not find a place to donate your horse, to a 4h club, to a riding facility, to a therapeutic center (if horse is dead broke of course), to someone who just really wants a horse and has the place for it.
But, in the end if there was no where for the horse to go but auction........... I would shoot my horse myself LONG before it would ever end up a at a slaughter house. I could be poor and destitute and still not sell my horse for a couple of hundred bucks to see it slaughtered. there is no money value you could give me to see my beloved horse there.

my biggest problem with the slaughter house is the treatment of the horses from auction yard to the plant. there is no monitoring, the people are all cruel, once i would like to take a whip from one of those people and crack them across the back.
I have come to grips that in some countries people will probably always eat horse, it's their culture, i have to accept that. in the US and CANADA. I don't accept it, we don't eat horses here nor should we supply other countries who do.
I believe the first step is educating people on backyard breeding,. ASK THEM, for what reason are you breeding your mare- because you want to have a baby running around your yard. - because you want to sell it for profit - because you are ignorent and uneducated - because a horse is a status symbol to you, the more horses in the field, the richer you look - because you're an animal hoarder or simply BECAUSE YOU CAN. You drive down any road, any highway, there are horses everywhere, you wonder, for what purpose do the owners have those horses. do they ride them, do they just look at them, or are they expendable to them.

sadly, i find in the horse world there are two types. THOSE THAT LOVE THEIR HORSES AND THOSE THAT SEE THEM AS EXPENDABLE AND JUST A TOOL IN AN ACTIVITY THEY PARTICIPATE IN.

people too many times when faced with the crunch of needing a bit of cash see the slaughter plant as an easy few bucks. people will drive their horses straight to the plant and get the money right then and there, their horses too, are usually slaughtered that same day per their request. I KNOW THIS, as i know farmers/ranchers personally who have done this. OH AND TRUST ME, i had to bite my tongue. MY TONGUE IS NOW ONE INCH SHORTER THEN BEFORE. jk.

not everyone has our beliefs, our values, our morals, I wish they did. would make my life a lot easier and I would probably have more friends.
I hate to see any animal die for any reason. I think of the job I am applying for, it isn't a no kill shelter, but, they do try their darndest to find them all homes, they have more then two weeks as well. they do euthanize cats there and some dogs. I realize that there is only so much room there, there are only so many homes. I would rather they euthanize them then let them starve on the street. at least there they are surrounded by caring people and comforting last words. but, sadly it isn't there fault, it is once again from uneducated people, who don't know what spaying or neutering means, who let their animals run loose to breed. Now, not everyone is that uneducated, sometimes it is accidental. but, a lot of times, it is the stray cats who breed and breed and breed. I think it should be up to us to educate and help the animals the best we can, those animals didn't ask to be born, we brought them into this world, we should help them while they're in it. it is sad that the animals usually have to pay the price of our mistakes with their lives.

people are still fascinated by the cute baby horsie, the cute baby puppies. people sometimes forget that they grow up to be horses and dogs. some people just like the baby stage and then kick their animals out and replace them with new babies. this i know as true too, as i have known people who have had new kittens every month, I always ask, where did your cat go, they always have an answer......... usually they say they found it a new home, but, I know different.
Babies are cute , yes, they sure are, I love baby humans too, but, I only have two kids. I have control.

I love baby horses too, but, I wouldn't want to breed my horses. I love puppies too, but, they pee and poop in the house alot. I love kittens too, but, they rip the house apart.

the only ones to blame in any of these issues is man and man alone.
I know I have kind of strayed off topic, but, it is one big circle, it all starts with the breeding, then the cuteness being over, then the uneducated people owning them and then not knowing what to do with what they have.
alot of people take the easy way out, take an animal to the shelter, or take an animal to the auction, out of sight out of mind. I would euthanize my dog too long before I would take it to a kill shelter. I love animals far too much to leave their lives in someone elses hands.
They became my responsibility the day they set foot on my property. it is my responsibility to be RESPONSIBLE.
so, yes, if I had to find a new home for my horse and all options were expended, I would euthanize. But i would do my best to make that my very last resort.

[cat67]

Emjay, that was a great post and so true on everything. I can tell you have worked in small animal rescue...I have too. It is frustrating to see all the people who just don't care.

[kidholly]

Something that is very upsetting to me is to see people breed their mare just because "it'd be fun to have baby". Invariably, these are people who don't do anything with their horses anyway except ride the hell out of 'em once in a while, leaving them sore and half lame for days after.

You just know this colt/filly will go unhandled and untrained. All of a sudden it's a two year old, and an obnoxious one, at that. It doesn't lead, pick its feet up, stay out of your space, tie, or stand for grooming. It's old enough so it's no longer "cute" and is big and strong, so nobody at home wants to mess with it now. Getting a trainer is discussed, then forgotten. A couple more years go by, and this colt/filly is now an adult and still unbroke and untrained, even minimally.

Humans are the ones who are responsible for starting horses down a path that results in them being seen as having reduced value. These results of backyard breeding are the ones that make their way to auctions, because nobody bothered to teach them any of the things that would make them saleable and desireable. You can't *give* 'em away.

Two people that I know have done this to a horse. Both horses are languishing in muddy lots behind barns. They're not "abused" but their lives are not good, either. One is a 10 year old and is still a stud...he has been alone, staked out on a rope all his life. He gets hay thrown at him twice a day, and is not a pleasant animal to be around. I'm pretty sure I know what his fate will eventually be.

The youngster belongs to my boss. She likes the status of having horses. They don't get fed at regular times or get groomed; they wear the same mud all winter. The youngster is coming three, and knows nothing. It's such a waste...he's a friendly little guy, but he's headed down that bad path.

They talk about getting thousands for him when they sell. It won't happen. Nobody will see him as having value.

Someone once mentioned people who want to keep a stud should have to pay a fat tax....I totally agree. Over breeding of horses (also dogs and cats) has got to slow down, and eventually stop. All these animals who are the innocent results of our bad decisions are the ones who pay the price, because they are not seen as having value.

As for euthanizing a healthy horse, I would do it if the horse was dangerous and looking to hurt people. Selling them would most likely send them into a life of abuse as "cowboys" tried to give them an attitude adjustment. They usually get passed around alot. I have known a couple of horses who, I am sure, had a screw loose; a horse like this is better off euthanized than abused. Death is not necessarily the worst option.

[ljbrooks]

Good post, kidholly.